Marina Kinyakina

Русская версия интервью

Marina Kinyakina, freestyle wrestler and trainer from Western Siberia, Russia. Dislikes boxing and considers freestyle wrestling as the best way to form a beautiful female body

Tell us about yourself.

My name is Marina. I live in a big West-Siberian city. I am 20, married, don’t have kids yet. I am solid built – weight 160lb, height 5’9”. I am working in a kindergarten as a teacher. In the evenings I work as a trainer assistant in freestyle wrestling junior team. I work there together with a skilled freestyle trainer and wrestling master. His name is Nikolay Fedorovich.

What is your major achievements and titles in freestyle wrestling?

I don’t have too famous titles, when I was in the category "Junior", I won several all-city and all-region championships. Nowadays, the sports is not subsidized by the state, so very few can travel for championships. If I had enough money I would probably get more prestigious titles.

What are your responsibilities in the team?

During training my students and I work out wrestling techniques and I perform two functions in turn: first I demonstrate a move, then each student attempts to work it out on me.

Do you have to really wrestle in the team?

Time to time we hold competitions, which I participate in along with other students.

Do boys feel some discomfort losing to you?

Not really. They consider such matches as training and realize that I have much more experience.

Have boys ever managed to defeat you?

Yes, if a guy achieved such a level that he is able to confidently pin me I am happy and we celebrate the event in the team. That means the guy has become a real wrestler and he should move to the adult men category. Who knows, may be one day I will learn something from him. Time to time former students of Nikolay Fedorovich visit our team and share their skills and experience with us. All my wrestling skills I took from male wrestlers, including my former students.

Is it really necessary for a trainer to compete with his or her student?

Actually, not necessary, but you can learn much in a real contest with a skillful opponent. Besides, it’s good for me - I can keep myself in a good shape. After all, I don’t have too many opportunities to wrestle. And I love wrestling… By the way, Nikolay Fedorovich sometimes suddenly challenges one of students for a contest – he wants everyone to be in permanent combative shape.

Are there girls in the team?

Yes, but very few. Many of them come to the team and leave it soon because it’s difficult for them to bear hard loads during training as well as permanent physical confrontation. But a couple of strong girls are training in the team.

Have girls in the team ever defeated you?

It hasn’t happened so far.

How often you wrestle with female freestyle wrestlers on tournaments?

Sometimes tournaments and championships are held in the city and in the oblast. Unfortunately, there are not too many women in freestyle wrestling, so we have to “be cooked in our own juice”.

Have you ever wrestled with men in tournaments?

Very few times. I spar in training and wrestle with boys in our team but usually I don’t compete with adult men and with guys moved to the adult group – my husband doesn’t approve that. :). Once there were organized demonstrating matches between men and women winners of the all-city championship where men in each pair were 22lb+ lighter than women. Men won in four matches out of five and just one match (with my participation) finished with draw.

Is that true that woman and men are so close in freestyle wrestling?

Of course, not! As a matter of fact, I had hard time in that match despite my opponent seemed to spare me. Actually, men’s wrestling is completely different sport - men wrestle in a different way, more toughly and jerky. You can wrestle a man on the equal footing only if he is not well trained. In case of equal (or even greater) weight and skills a woman doesn’t have any real chance to defeat a man. Besides, men have some barrier when wrestling a woman – there is a body contact and possible painful moves. After all, it’s very sensitive deal…

What is the difference between men’s wrestling and women’s wrestling?

Almost all men are inborn wrestlers whereas women have to overcome barriers. Also our bodies are different. But female wrestling seems to be nicer though.

The well-known Russian sambist Andrey Romanov in his interview said the following: “I don’t understand the rage that is very noticeable in women’s wrestling. Sometimes it seems like you can touch the fury”. Do you agree with the statement?

Yes, partly agree. Women are more emotional creatures and they sometimes react to a contest too personally. It’s not about me – I don’t feel any rage.

Are you in favor of mixed wrestling?

As I already said, I avoid wrestling adult men in competitions. There are several reasons… But mixed training is helpful. I learned everything from male wrestlers during training and my students learn from me.

Is it appropriate for a man to wrestle a woman?

Appropriate? Why not if a woman is OK with that? But I think a real man wouldn’t wrestle (and moreover fight) with a woman in the full strength whatever strong and adroit she is. Unlikely that mixed match participants could forget that they belong to the opposite sexes… Whatever the other combative woman say…

Do you consider the man’s superiority to be acceptable and natural?

I wouldn’t use the word “superiority”. At one time men worshiped women and accomplished feats in behalf of them. Who then had the superiority? Simply we are different and this is great!

How did you come to wrestling? What attracted you in physical combat, which is not traditional activity for women?

I live in a working class neighborhood where fights are routine events. Almost everyone fights – boys and girls, men and even mature women. For instance, last summer two forty-year-old women in our building brutally fought just in a stairway over a married man who visited them in turn. So, self-defense ability is appreciated here. In middle school I started to wrestle with boys who taught me various wrestling moves. I have never used fists; if someone attacked me I acted as a wrestler – I tried to knock him or her down using wrestling techniques. I enjoyed wrestling and I wrestled with boys friendly, just for fun. I hate “mug beating”; wrestling is a very different thing.

Did you also wrestle with girls?

Very rarely, mostly defended from attacks. But it was an event occurred that helped me to become a real wrestler. Once, perhaps in the seventh grade, my female classmate and I had a wrestling duel over a boy on the grass in an empty park. Suddenly we noticed that a man is watching our wrestling. We were embarrassed and immediately leapt to our feet. Believe or not the man turned out to be a freestyle wrestling trainer. He invited to attend his team. My opponent refused but I went. That was my trigger.

Was that Nikolay Fedorovich?

Yes.

Did you participate in other sports? Did you try other combat sports?

I was training in athletic gymnastics. But I had to quit because I had grown up too big and turned out not to be good for this small girl sport. I also tried judo and sambo but disliked them. I like playing soccer with guys.

Does close body contact in wrestling disturb you?

No, it doesn’t. I am used to that since my childhood. May be just when I wrestle with a mature experienced man… :)

How does your husband react on your passion for wrestling? Doesn’t he feel uncomfortable in front of your unusual strength?

When we met each other first time and he learned that I was into wrestling, he offered me to wrestle and carefully but confidently pinned me although I desperately resisted. So, from the very beginning he demonstrated his physical advantage, so he doesn’t feel uncomfortable at all. And I feel myself behind his back like behind a rock.

But you just said that a real man wouldn’t wrestle with a woman in full strength…

Somehow he managed to pin me tenderly. :)

Does he have any connections to the sports?

No, he is a big and quite well built guy but he has nothing to do with sports. I like it though…

What are your favorite wrestling techniques?

No doubt, the most impressive move - to throw an opponent down from the standing position if you manage to hold her instantly pinning. There are techniques, which need great strength (which I usually have if not tired). I often use crotch (or thigh) lift with subsequent exposure. I love nelson, leg lace, I love pinning using arm bar when lying on an opponent by my back. It’s also very impressive when you firmly press an opponent by her shoulder blades to the mat holding her by haunch (standing on your feet or knees). Many favorite techniques exist. Freestyle wrestling is very beautiful sport especially in women’s performance! Wrestling is very fascinating; when I am wrestling I am on the spirit rise.

Crotch lift? Sounds frightened though.

It sounds frightened just for men. :)

What was your most interesting and exciting wrestling match?

Once I managed to pin a heavier opponent in a few minutes in the absolute category contest. It was unforgettable!

Tell us more details about the contest.

It was like this. I instantly moved down to her legs and grabbed her around the thighs attempting to accomplish the lift with subsequent exposure but she moved back and aside attempting to slip out of my hug. I intercepted her move, tightened her thighs and firmly pressed her shoulder blades against the mat. She was desperately twisting and I felt like I was holding a huge jackhammer, which was trying to break away. I grabbed her thighs by the iron grip locking hands in the wrench – the match just started and I still had a lot of energy. I kept pressing her shoulders to the floor and instantly put a stop to all her attempts to escape, turning her body back to the right position. She got so confused that in ten – fifteen seconds she stopped resisting and the pin was announced. Probably if she was more adroit and not so heavy she would be able to escape. The opponent got very upset and got in tears. I deeply regretted her. By the way, she was very beautiful and who knows, may be it was an additional stimulus for me that injected some adrenaline into my blood. :)

Why the maximum weight in the categories is so low for women?

Women are smaller from birth and too heavy women are usually overweighed, which doesn’t allow them to participate in freestyle wrestling.

How about such female giants as Olesya Kovalenko, Veronika Kozlovskaya, Svetlana Gundarenko and Irina Rodina?

I think none of them would be able to successfully participate in freestyle wrestling. They all are judoists or sambists; those combat forms are different, there is no tight contact in them. I am confident (absolutely without boasting) that I would be able to pin any of them in a few seconds without problems. I emphasize that I mean freestyle wrestling only - if chokes and pain locks are allowed, I would give up of course.

But Olesya Kovalenko and Veronika Kozlovskaya are sumoists.

As far as I know they came from judo or sambo. And sumo stands very far from freestyle wrestling…

What do you feel when pinning an opponent?

Joy.

What do you feel when you are pinned by an opponent?

I am not too much upset, I am not that ambitious. I just analyze the reason of the defeat. Actually, I have never been pinned in women’s competitions, if I was sometimes defeated I just was defeated by scores. In fact, sometimes, strong boys pin me in the team competitions; then I am just happy because this is my success as a trainer.

Why women never participated in combative activities for centuries? What has changed in our life that encouraged women to wrestle and fight?

The ancient tradition is involved here that based on the main women’s function as mothers and home keepers. Then, I already said that very few women are physically able to participate in combative activities. Besides, we have a different psycho too...

You keep saying “very few are able” but before you said that many girls in your city fight.

Fortunately, not every girl does. Besides, I meant serious wrestling training and competition rather than wallops, kicks and hair pulling.

Can any person participate in wrestling or some special talents are needed?

Basically, every man can - you barely would meet a man who has never wrestled or fought at least in his childhood. A woman though should have certain physical abilities and solid flesh. Some skills and abilities can be cultivated then.

Do you wrestle with friends for fun?

Sometimes. The most of my girl friends don’t know how to wrestle but sometimes I play the fool with men (always in presence of my husband :) ). And of course, we regularly have funny wrestling with my husband.

Tell us about some interesting cases of friendly wrestling.

Once we had a vacation in the “Golden sand” in Bulgaria. On the beach several guys engaged in a wrestling competition. They represented themselves in front of their girls as wrestling masters. Actually, they wrestled really unskillfully and my husband goaded me to show them the class. At first, when I asked them to let me in, they started laughing at me, especially their girl friends. But they stopped laughing as soon as I grabbed one guy and threw him down on his back. Another volunteer came in but was toppled instantly too… Sometimes it’s a pleasure to take a conceited person down a peg.

What is your opinion about women’s boxing and other contact sports?

I don’t like women's boxing as well as men’s boxing.

Why?

Let’s call things by their real names. What is a boxer’s goal in a fight? To inflict damage to an opponent’s head (brain). Human brain is the most complex and fine mechanism and the sport where they try to destroy this mechanism can’t attract my sympathies. I think freestyle wrestling is the most optimal way to outcome the natural human aggressiveness.

Many boxing advocates though pint to the statistics, which says that level of traumatism in boxing, is far behind many other sports.

This is the juggling with facts. None of the sports except boxing have a goal to inflict a trauma to an opponent, especially to a head. And in none of the other sports so often brain traumas might happen. There is a big difference between an accidental arm or leg fracture and an intentional punch to a head in full strength.

Do you think boxing has to be banned?

You should be careful with prohibitions; otherwise everything in the world might be banned. But if boxing is banned I won’t be upset. But the thing is that boxing will never be banned because professional boxing is very profitable industry with billions in revenue.

What can you tell about other form of women combat, for instance, about martial arts?

I am not an admirer of combative sports in which major techniques are chokes and painful holds (like in judo and sambo). I consider them to be too cruel for a friendly contest.

What is your opinion about such wrestling form as “submission”?

I am not sure if I am familiar with this form very well but I would say the same thing I already said about judo and sambo. I don’t recognize a wrestling form where in order to win you have to choke, break joints and inflict unbearable pain to an opponent.

Do you really think that freestyle wrestling with its throws, turns, holds and locks is such more humanly?

Yes! The goal of a freestyle wrestling match is to pin an opponent or deliver more right moves. There is no such thing as intention to wound. It’s friendly grappling rather than a way of killing or maiming an enemy.

Do you think women should do whatever men do? What is your opinion about feminism?

Nature of women and men are different; so their talents are different. For instance, quantities of women wrestlers will always substantially less than a quantity of male wrestlers. The most of women are not just good for wrestling from birth! At the same time, actually every man is able to wrestle. Besides, as I said, men’s wrestling and women’s wrestling are in essence different sports just with similar rules. But I am pro freedom and let a woman do whatever she wants. Women don’t have to be discriminated but they must be protected. And I don’t like aggressive feminists because sometimes you should know when to stop.

Aren’t you afraid that participating in wrestling might spoil women’s external appearance?

The other way around! Owing to freestyle wrestling I have become slender and shapely; my posture and walk have been substantially improved. I don’t look mannish at all, though a professional might recognize me as a wrestler. I consider freestyle wrestling as one of the best ways to form a beautiful female body. Female freestyle wrestlers look more feminine and attractive than the most other female athletes. It’s confirmed by your poll too.

You emphasize that just few women have ability to participate in wrestling. How the other ones can perfect their bodies and postures as you have?

OK, very few people participate in a serious sport anyway and there are many other ways to improve your figure. A friend of mine, a beautiful and fragile girl might get a bruise easily in case of a slight touch. But she systematically does Yoga exercises and her body is a lovely sight…

Isn’t there a danger to hurt or jam women’s breast during wrestling matches?

I already mentioned that far from every woman is able to participate in wrestling due to her build. Certainly, a big-breasted woman won’t go to freestyle wrestling. On the other hand, a well-fitted breast protector will secure your safety almost for 100%.

Since such a sincere conversation began let me ask you some sensitive questions. There is an opinion that female wrestling is mostly Lesbian’s activity due to their enthusiasm about body contact during contests. How do you react to this opinion?

As the Russian joke says “I don’t react”. :) Speaking seriously, the reality is quite opposite. If you consider real women’s wrestling rather than caressing masked by wrestling you would see that it represents the eternal natural women competitive wills. The similar natural rivalry exists among men. Nobody would state that the major stimulus for a man to be a wrestler is homosexual contact. The other way around, a male wrestler is a man in square! :)

How about a female wrestler?

Of course, she is a 200% woman! :) A real woman always has some competing feelings toward other women, even more than men do. Just due to the tradition women competed by a roundabout way but once new opportunities appeared, we can satisfy this feeling in physical competition.

Are you aware that some men and women feel some kind of sexual excitement when participating or watching combative activities? What do you think about that?

Yes, I understand that well. Probably, the centers of sexual thrills in our brain locate somewhere close to the centers of competing feelings… But I am not an expert in this area and I won’t speculate, sorry…

Why just women wrestling turned to be a basis of the tremendous number of erotic shows, for instance, notorious “mud wrestling”?

We just noted that physical competitions are really erotic. Actually, everything a woman does, especially not too much dressed one, is erotic. Perhaps, two women rivalry excites men – this is a wide field for imagination...

Then another question. We just noted that wrestling has some erotic flavor and that in a mixed contest you can’t forget about gender differences. What teenagers might feel then in contact with a young shapely woman?

I got you and the problem exists here. But… First of all, when wrestling you digress from other irritants (even though not for 100%). Then, even it would seem to be strange, teenager boys could be well aroused when wrestling each other. I think though there is a positive factor here too. Permanent contacting with a woman helps teenagers to get rid of some juvenile complexes.

What is men’s reaction when they learn that you are a wrestler?

Different. Curiosity, surprise, admiration, skepticism. Sometimes distrust. I already told about the incident on the beach. A couple of more times I had to prove in practice that I was not a fragile babe.

Do you assess women around you as potential wrestling opponents?

No, the vast majority of women just may not be my wrestling opponents. But sometimes I assess man…

Did you have occasions to fight in the real life?

Yes, I had to fight several times. But without fists since wrestling techniques were enough. I am solid built and you could figure out that I am a wrestler by my stocky neck. But the stereotype about big women usually works that they are clumsy. Of course, freestyle wrestling skills are not optimal for street fighting but usually after a first throw or moving to legs a roughneck “calms down”. Once I stood up for a girl who was dragged to bushes by two guys. I just dropped them to the ground, so they were laid up just spinning their eyes.

Would you able to fight with a woman, for instance, over a man?

I think any conflict can be resolved peacefully. If worst comes to worst, you can have a wrestling duel according rules pointed out in advance.

Have you had to defend from rapists or robbers?

I haven’t been an object of serious attacks - I look solid all the same.

What is your parents’ attitude toward your passion?

At the beginning they were categorically against it, especially my dad. Then after they realized that the sport is reasonable and not harmful, they learned to accept.

Do you have a hobby?

Fishing, soccer, collecting stamps related to the sports...

Do you have notes or considerations about the content and design of our site?

I sincerely admire this site, its unique topic, content and design. It would be nice though to have more information about the sports: groups, teams, and tournaments. It would be also great if combatants and trainers are involved. I realize though it’s almost impossible to achieve that.

Thank you very much for the interview!

November 15, 2002

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